Real information how burgs debuffs stack (tested)

This post was taken from here: http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=149343
So credits go to: Sneaky_Snikwah

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Real information how burgs debuffs stack (tested)
There has often been disscusion on how debuffs stack.

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=147550
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=113304

Most of it without much real proof or hearesay so I've dicided to test all the debuffs we have to see how they stack.

So Far I've tested three. "Reveal weakness" and two "Disable" with "Dust in the eyes" and "Counter defence" yet to come.



RESULTS


REVEAL WEAKNESS
This is a plain additive stack.
Two 8% RW gave a total of 16% extra damage (TESTED)
Three 8% RW gave a total of 24% extra damage (TESTED)
If this trend continued 6 traited burgs could be doing 160% damage and a whole raid could be doing 340% (THEORY)


DISABLE
This is a cumalitive stack. (based on the disable result)
My traited 20% plus another 15% gave 32%. (TESTED)
This is calculated like 0.80 damage x another 0.85 damage = 0.68 damage (TESTED)
If this also applies to the melee speed reduction, 6 burgs with traited disable could reduce the damage of a single target to 7% 0.8^12 =0.069 and a burg raid could reduce it to 0.002% (THEORY)


DUST IN THE EYES
This is a should also be a cumalitive stack.
Two (20% miss plus 25% slow) should give 36% miss and 44% slow (THEORY)
From peoples experience, the miss rate does not get very high (So I will actually test this soon)
6 burgs with traited dust in the eyes could give a miss rate to a 3 targets of 74% and a slow speed of 18% and a burg raid could reduce them to 99.5% miss and slow speed of 0.1% (THEORY)


COUNTER DEFENCE
This is a should an additive stack. (based on reveal weakness results)
Two (6% crit% plus -10% block/evade/parry) should give 12% crit and -20% block/evade/parry (THEORY)
I don't know how much block/evade/parry big mobs have but it would probably be overkill to have more than 2 CD at a time
However 6 burgs with traited COUNTER DEFENCE could increase the crit rate by 36% and a burg raid could increase it to 144%. ~15 would be enough to get 100% crits if you allready had a base of 15% to start with (THEORY)



METHOD


REVEAL WEAKNESS

Sneak, surprise strike, aim. (To get consistent results)

603 damage to a level 1 deer (level 41)
651 with 1 8% RW
699 with 2 8% RW
747 with 3 8% RW which is exactly 24% !
1.08x1.08x1.08 would have given 760 damge

This is the easiest to test in any zone. Need more burgs to see how it goes upto 6 RW


DISABLE

Found a green Earth kin that would hit me for ~40-60 meelee damage. However when hit hit me for 40 there in a (min) next to it. There were also (low) (med) and probably would have been(high) and (max) if the mob was higher in level.

Anyway, after my traited disable was applied (20% reduced melee speed and 20% reduce melee damage) the (min) hit changed to 32.

This would be expected as 0.8 x 40 = 32

When another burg added their extra 15% disable the (min) hit reduced to 27

27/40 = 0.675 or 32.5% reduction (instead of the expected 32% due to rounding errors)
A (min) 26 would have given 35% and a (min) 28 would have give 30%

This testing need to be done on stuff that hits for some bigger numbers to minimise rounding. however 27 is the expected result.

I didn't measure the reduction in attack speed but it should be easier to do with a lower level mob that can hit you for ages to get some good averaging (so long as the disable attack does not kill it too soon)


DUST IN THE EYES
I think measuring the miss amounts should be resonably easy on a low level mob. Just need to to count them up over a minute or so. with and without the dust


COUNTER DEFENCE
This should ok to do. Double daggers to get lots of hits in and just count which auto attacks gave crits.


I'm on lanroval if anyone it keen to help me out with multiple burg tests. It took me 2 hours to find a nice burg to help me with teh 2min disable experiment.

Snikwah
Last edited by Sneaky_Snikwah : Yesterday at 11:45 PM.

right, i've tried this out:

Elite master:

x6 dust in the eyes

-90% movement speed
+20% miss chance.

im not 100% its 20 % miss chance, but im definately certain its not 40%. i've but -90% movement speed here, because it is dramatically slower, but i believe the slowest you can currently get in the moors is -90%, -100% would be a root, so they just put -90% as a cap.

if you could really stack the miss chance with dust in the eyes, 6 burglar's could easily solo a keep. just put a load of aoe dust on the cheifs, Tyrant, and any other adds. 120% miss chance would be more than enough.. then all you'd need to do is spam dust whenever it is getting low. it'd be like a touch and go, with +60% evade chance, and you having 20% evade already.

i think it is obvious why they have decided to cap it to +20% miss chance as a max, but actually im pretty sure that is only from dust in the eyes. i think if you take Gust of Wind, loremaster skill, +7% miss chance for 2M, AND a dust in the eyes, i think you still get a +27% miss chance, but that skill doesn't stack . also, mobs i find usually have a 5% chance to miss.

hence, usually a 25% miss chance with the dust, but with a lrm 32%, and i think there are a couple more skills on other classes that can buff it more.

traited disable doesn't make damage ridiculously low, otherwise you could probably near-solo just about every boss in the rift with 12 burgs. (except bally, ofc) i think once again ther eis a cap of -20% dmg , but i think the +20% attack duration stacks to pretty high numbers.

THIS HAS NOT BEEN PROVEN

it is just out of personal experience.

Reveal weakness stacks. full stop.

sorry for this double post, but on a simular matter:

TRAITED ENRAGE:
+5% ranged vulnerability

THIS STACKS ! with a hunter, and 2 other burglar's we tried out the damage of a hunter against a target, with traited enrage on it, with 1,2 and 3 enrage's on it . the more enrages u got, the more dmg the hunter hits.